Continued from here (where I seem to have reached the thread's size limit), regarding Disapora's choice to use a text field for Gender instead of a drop down for Sex:
I agree that sex is not a simple binary, although the vast majority of the human population is not hermaphrodite or neutered. But let's consider that n%, as I'm sure you'll agree it is the rights of the minority that are the most important when considering how to design a new society like Diaspora.
Are anyone's rights being infringed up by having a drop down for Sex (options being Male, Female, Other, ..) instead of a text box for Gender? You say such an approach would implicitly treat them as freaks- funny your usage of "implicitly" here, as though I am implying anything. I am not. If such a conclusion is reached, it is by inference, i.e., someone else is inferring it. In other words, it is their problem that they would think I am calling them a freak, not mine. Sorry to get tautological here, but if they are not male or female then they are not male or female, and as such should be given an option for neither. This says nothing about whether or not they are freaks. Any reading into it as such is just bringing one's own prejudices where they are not justified.
As far as denying their existence by giving them this option- um, no? Isn't giving them the option in fact recognizing their existence? Wouldn't it be a denial of their existence if the option wasn't given?
Think of it another way: gender is subjective. What is masculine in one culture may be feminine in another. What makes me manly in my eyes could make me womanly in yours. Sex on the other hand is objective. I either have a penis or vagina or neither or both. I may feel manly today and womanly tomorrow, but the sexual organs I have do not change on a daily basis. Male in Italy and Australia and 13th century France is male in America, today, yesterday, and tomorrow.
I want my user profile to reflect the fixed status of this aspect of my objective self. It seems other people want to have a non-fixed reflection of a subjective aspect of their self. Fine. How about this for a compromise: give users both the free-form text field for Gender and the drop down for Sex. This solution recognizes the validity of both our points, as I believe there both are. As it is right now, Diaspora is limiting its appeal by excluding people with preferences like mine, and I'm sure you'll agree that maximizing its appeal would be good for Diaspora.
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If Diaspora instead had a dropdown box for sex, rather than a write-in field for gender, what would you suggest for those of us who are transgendered? Why are our genitals more relevant than our actual minds?
ReplyDelete"Are anyone's rights being infringed up by having a drop down for Sex (options being Male, Female, Other, ..) instead of a text box for Gender?"
Are anyone's rights being infringed up by having a text box for Gender (where no one is othered by having to pick "other") instead of a drop down for Sex?
I'm not sure why someone who feels that communicating their physical sex is important can't just put "My sex is male, and my gender is [xyz]" in the text box. It's wide-open for just that reason.
ReplyDeleteHell, by your reasoning the very best thing to do would be to have TWO text fields -- one for sex and one for gender. That would solve your issue with not knowing what someone's "objective" sex is (whatever that means) while still not having to think up every possibility to put in the dropdown.
I still don't see why physical sex is important information to the point that a dropdown menu must be had. It being objective information still doesn't tell us very much: okay, so this person has a penis, and...? What does that tell us about them as a person?
Could you explain in more detail what that particular piece of information, as a distinct datum from the gender information, adds to a site like Diaspora?
splitcomplex,
ReplyDeleteI don't know why you think I think genitals are more important than minds, but I'd ask you to please keep such straw men arguments to yourself.
Indeed, no one's rights are being infringed upon by whatever route Diaspora chooses. People with certain preferences are however being excluded based on how Diaspora chooses to design its site. I think it's off to a bad start, one that, in my humble opinion, will hinder its adoption, which is quite sad to me.
Neba,
I don't think you quite follow my reasoning. Re-read my original post that started this debate and you'll see not only where I point out why "Gender" is a bad idea for a distinguishing characteristic field (misleading, misused, misunderstood), but also why a text field is a bad idea in this case. Go ahead, I'll wait. We can continue when you get back and you've taken the time to understand me better.
A question for both of you, and anyone else, that popped into my head recently considering this debate: what do you do when, in hearing and reading (or speaking and writing), you come upon the words "he" or "she" and "him" or "her"? Does it cause an upset in you to see people described in such black and white, binary terms? Would you prefer people who don't fit into society's such tight restrictions be described as "it", "this" or "that"? or "s/he" and "hir"? I'm honestly curious.
"I don't know why you think I think genitals are more important than minds"
ReplyDeleteJust a little something to do with how you're ranting about how it should be labelled "sex", not "gender".
"People with certain preferences are however being excluded based on how Diaspora chooses to design its site."
Okay but see
I am cool with that. If you are so upset by people accurately describing themselves rather than having to be pigeonholed into an inaccurate binary, I'M GLAD you won't be using Diaspora. Just one more reason why I should use it.
"Does it cause an upset in you to see people described in such black and white, binary terms? Would you prefer people who don't fit into society's such tight restrictions be described as "it", "this" or "that"? or "s/he" and "hir"?"
Most people who identify as other-gendered do use pronouns like zie/hir, etc. I personally prefer to be referred to as "it".